TRANSCRIPTION
Hello everybody and welcome back to the Alopecia Angel podcast. I'm your host Johanna Dahlman. And today we're going to be talking to Akua Robinson, who is the founder of Friends in Beauty podcast and also Friends in Beauty website and membership. She is an African American who has a wealth of knowledge in beauty but then also has spoken to a lot of wonderful beauty experts on her podcast as well. And today we're going to be talking about ethnic hair, curly hair, and black African American hair, because this is a subject that has caught my attention.
On average, for those of you who don't know, black women used anywhere from 5 to 7products on average, on a daily basis, 5 to 7 products. That's a lot of products, and thething is, Is that a lot of these products contain multiple chemicals, they contain lye, theycontain the relaxers, they contain a lot of other types of carcinogenic that cause breastcancer, that cause uterine cancer, that cause ovarian cancer products in them. Afterdoing some research, I started to see that a lot of these products tend to be showcased,focused and harnessed and available in low income areas, according to a Harvardstudy and research article that I found online.
Also in regards to the cancer risk, in regards to the carcinogenic risk and in regards tothe amount of hair products that this demographics uses, it's a lot and it compoundsover the years on average, apparently children are starting to use products as young as3 years old. They're starting to get relaxers as young as 3, 4, 5 years old. There wasone article that I read about of an 11 year old who she got herfirst time, her hair relaxedfor her mother's wedding and the next day within 24 hours, she had hair loss and herhair was coming out in clumps.
I'm going to tell you that this story is not thefirst that I've read about, not just for blackafrican americans but also just for asians also for latins also for white caucasian oranything else it doesn't matter your ethnicity when it comes to hair loss what happensthough is I've heard numerous stories is you're at the salon, they're either putting bleachor dye, or in this case, a relaxer, or some other type of chemical in your hair, and then loand behold, the stylist gets sidetracked, or maybe she loses the amount of time thatneeds to be happening or, or going on to your hair in terms of the product, and lo andbehold, you are having the issues later on.
And again, it starts happening within 24 hours or even less. I actually had one client, Asian Korean you know, thick black hair, she went to the salon, she got her hair done and all of a sudden, literally as the stylist is washing out the hair dye out of her hair 60% of her hair is falling out in the bowl, you know, in the bowl where they're washing their hair. 60% of this lady's hair is coming out right there at the salon, and guess what? There's no recourse. The most that the salon can say is like: Okay, ay, we won't charge you or maybe I'm sorry and that's it. There's no recourse. If you are losing your hair at the salon or even 24 hours later or 36 hours later, or 72 hours later, There's no recourse and that's the situation here.
Like all you have to do is just be patient and wait for that hair to grow back, but you can support it. I will say that you can support it, but I will say less is more in terms of chemicals, less is more in terms of products, less is more in terms of what you're putting on your hair and scalp. And so think about this when you're starting to, to hear these stories. And also when you're starting to read about it, because it's not out of quote unquote, nowhere that people are losing their hair after doing one treatment. How is this11 year old that I read about online, you know, first time ever going to the hair salon, first time ever getting a treatment, a relaxing treatment, and in 24 hours she's losing clumps of hair. You know what I mean? As an 11 year old, you have virgin hair, you have hair that's never been dyed or touched or, you know, anything. Maybe a little hairspray and that's it. In this case it's going away in clumps.
And so to me, when I read these stories, it saddens me. It you know, I feel for, for, for these children, for these people, because it shouldn't happen this way. One thing is to have alopecia and then one thing is to go to the salon and the stylist to create that mistake or that error, or that situation, and it shouldn't have happened. And so I'm here speaking with Akua, who've, I've been on her podcast, she's interviewed me, it was a really fun podcast, and now I'm interviewing her more like a coffee chat, so that we can talk about ethnic hair, curly hair, resources, what to do, even biracial hair, when you have the mixture of a black and white, or a Latin and white, or a Korean and black, or whatever type of hair, there are resources for you, and so we talk about that, so here you go with Akua Robinson.
And before we get into that, I wanted to go ahead and also let you know and read some feedback that I've recently gotten from a couple clients. Lena says that she feels better energized and that this program has made a big difference for her. She says that she's realized that just because you're eating not healthy, doesn't mean that you're not eating right. She's learned a lot of big lessons in terms of nutrition within the program, but she's also understood on how to make better choices for her own body. She realizes that selfcare is very important and that she realizes what this truly means for her. She feels that she has the support and she also is on the right path for hair growth. So thank you, Lena, for your comments and feedback. That was wonderful.
I have another comment and feedback from Emma. Emma, she completed just 4 weeks of the program, she's already lost 12 pounds of stubborn weight that she has not been able to lose in a long time. She says that she feels amazing and she didn't do this to lose weight, but that this is an added bonus. She has more energy most of the time, and a lot of times now she realizes that her joints ache less. Her skin is clear, brighter, people have commented on it. She says her scalp is very much less greasy, especially with her face as well. There's no more spots which she used to get occasionally. Her scalp health is noticeably better, before it used to be spotty or gritty and now It's cleaner. It's the cleanest that it's been in a long time. She says her hair feels and looks cleaner. I don't wake up in the morning with hideously greasy hair that has to be washed. She does still wash her hair every day.
Hair shedding has reduced a lot. She feels very positive about her hair and confident that she can grow it back. She says some days I'm even able to forget that hair loss has been causing such an upset. for so long. She says her digestive system is so much better, she's more regular and she's also having healthier thoughts, mindset. oral health. Mentally, she's more positive less anxious, her personal life continues to get better. She says that she's enjoyed the diet. She's enjoyed the program, she enjoys the food, she hasn't been missing out. She loves that I'm cheering her on the sidelines and that she hasn't felt any pressure to her success so far, which is great because this way she's not overwhelmed. This is somebody who has frontal fibrosing alopecia. So she's getting healthier and healthier day by day and this is just 4 weeks in.
So thank you, Emma, for your feedback and for your wonderful thoughts. And here is that podcast with Akua Robinson.
Johanna: Hello, hello.
Akua: Hello, so good to see you.
Johanna: Likewise, how are you?Akua: I'm doing good, I can't complain.
Johanna: Excellent, excellent. Well, I wanted to bring you on to the Alopecia Angel podcast which I'm happy to share with you and your listeners as well, because I wanted to highlight ethnic hair, black women, black hair, and all this research that I've been compiling, but also kind of like put a spotlight onto this, because what I've been reading here lately is that on average, black women have anywhere between 5 to 6 products at home that they use on a regular basis, and on top of it, they get maybe hair relaxing done every, maybe 6 to 8 weeks, depending, maybe less if you have shorter hair. I mean, I don't know. This is just research, right? It's me diving deep into the webs of the internet.
And then I'm also seeing that just like you know, different other types of hair, maybe like my hair, there are products, shampoos, et cetera, that cause hair loss, that cause cancer, or that are carcinogenic, but then because black women have 5 to 6 plus products on a regular basis, It compounds and then the opportunity for chemicals and, you know, carcinogenic, you know, situations, breast cancer, uterine, uterine cancer, ovarian cancer, fibroids, all these things, it's just amplified. And because you come from the background of health and beauty, but beauty and ethnic beauty primarily, I wanted to bring you on so that you can showcase not just what you know, but what you've learned along the way of podcasting and, you know, interviewing so many, you know amazing people for our own podcast.
And so that's kind of like, what did I wanted to bring to, to my listeners, because I do have African American, I do have Caribbean African, or actually African African women, you know, from Nigeria from South Africa, Namibia, this type of thing. And so I wanted to showcase because, it looks very different from just like the regular European or even, you know, Asian hair or any other type of hair, because there's more to it, there's more complexities and levels to it and it's definitely more vulnerable, if I may say, you know, it's more sensitive in that sense. I was reading in this magazine online for prevention magazine where this lady who was being interviewed, she was 11 years old, she got her first relaxing treatment done at 11 years old, and literally within 24 hours, her hair started coming out in clumps.
Akua: Yeah, some people are even younger than that when they get their first relaxer or perm.
Johanna: And I'm just like: Oh my gosh, really? Like, And, and it sounds like a perm tome, the relaxing treatment sounds like a perm, just a bunch of chemicals sitting on your hair. And maybe the stylist, you know, being you know, pulled in different directions, not really seeing what's going on. And then of course, lo and behold, it burns your scalp or it burns your hair or, and then things start to fall apart. Because as an 11 year old, you have virgin hair, you know, it's never been treated, it's never been anything and then all of a sudden you douse it with chemicals and lo and behold, this has happened to her. it's horrible.
Akua: Okay, we could chat about it.
Johanna: Awesome. So let's get this party started.
Akua: I'll try to be as helpful as I can.
Johanna: So, thank you so much for coming here and for sharing your expertise, your knowledge, and of course your own experiences, if any, in regards to ethnic hair products, African, black women hair products, and how the clash of these products can interfere, can create hair loss, can create other health problems. And really I wanted to put a spotlight, because in general, there are hair products on a regular basis that are being recalled, and you're not going to see it on the front pages of the newspaper. It's always hush hush because they don't want to ruin the brand. I actually have a free PDF on my website for this that are brands that I monitor that are getting recalled or have been pinpointed to cause hair loss or to cause breast cancer or another type of cancer, but In the ethnic community, this is also not pinpointed. And so I wanted to bring you onto really, you know, showcase this. So, so tell me Akua, what, what, what can you share with us in terms of how this really creates impact and also a different, a differentiation between hair texture, color process, you know, how to manage it, all of it.
Akua: Well, as you mentioned, we were talking earlier, us as people of color, we tend to use a lot of products on our hair, especially if you are going natural. So within like the last, I would say like a little bit over a decade, there's been like this boom of natural hair education. But before that, people were just kind of like figuring things out on their own, a lot of DIY things or just trial and error trying different products because there wasn't necessarily a lot of information out there as far as what products to use, what was safe, how you achieve certain styles and everything like that. And just culturally, a lot of people of color, I could speak from being a black woman, a lot of black women have never even seen their natural hair before until they become adults and they're going natural.
You was telling me about a young lady who was 11 when she got her first perm, but I know of people who were as little as 3 years old, 3 or 4 years old getting their first perm or, you know, things like that because their parents believe like maybe their hair isn't as manageable or just to fit into societal norms natural hair hasn't really been seen as professional up until maybe like the last few decades. I remember people couldn't even wear braids or locks, people couldn't wear locks to work. So people were trying to conform to fit into corporate America by getting perms or wearing weaves and, you know, things like that. But just the products alone that we use on our hair, a lot of us don't know that they aren't good for us. A lot of us, when we go to get products, we're probably going to like the beauty supply store, like our local beauty supply store, which has been notorious for just selling us anything. They put any kind of products in those stores in certain neighborhoods because they know who they're targeting.
And then a lot of the products that we do see in the store, we might see like I don't know if I could say brands, but like Africa's best or certain names that will stick out to us in our hair. We're like: Oh, this is for black people, or this is probably black owned when they're not even black owned. They're not made for us in particular, but it's all a marketing gimmick just to get us to buy. So, in turn, I've seen a lot of people deal with a lot of health challenges. Me and my best friend were having this conversation maybe about a year ago. We saw a statistic like 1 in 4 women have like endometriosis, something of that, just something dealing with the the reproductive health. And we were just like: It has to be something that we've been using since we were children that we just have no clue, like it has to be something that we've been using for years and we just think that is normal. And our body has just been taking it in all of this time.
So I'm on the other end of the spectrum, as far as hair goes, as far as natural hair, because my hair has literally been natural all of my life. The only thing that I've experimented with. Is hair color, but as far as perms and things like that, I've never had a perm or anything like that. So it's only as an adult, I've come into contact with other women who have literally been like maybe their 30s seeing their natural hair texture for the first time, because they were so young when their parents decided to perm their hair and they just kind of kept up with that standard all throughout life and especially, like I said, to fit into society, they see somebody coming through The door was like the Afro, they go to be like: Oh no, you can't come into the courtroom like that, like that's not professional. So people wear wigs, perms and all of those things, but it's kind of like are bellion in a sense at this point for people to be natural and starting to embrace that natural beauty. So yeah, the products like we started to see a little bit them do a little bit better now, but it's kind of like the damage has been done and if people don't start now to move forward to do better, it's just going to keep on continuing.
Johanna: I wanted to share with you some information that I have right in front of me. This is from prevention magazine and it says that in the relaxers, there's 2 different types. There's the lye relaxers, which lye is a chemical lotion or cream that breaks down the hair's natural bonds by using sodium hydroxide, a compound commonly used to unclog drains. So this lye is in the relaxers that's been used in, you know, African hair products to relax and straighten the hair, but it's also used to unclog drains. Your other option is to have no lye relaxers, which is a chemical lotion or cream that breaks down the hair's natural bonds by using calcium hydroxide and odorless white powder used to treat sewage and in mortar, which is used for construction, often marketed as a safer alternative to lye relaxers.
And so you have these 2 options, which is horrific when I'm reading it, and then you also have, of course, the endocrine disrupting chemicals, which to your previous endometriosis you know, statement there that it definitely causes hormone disrupting and then also carcinogenic and cancer causing situations and this is unbelievable. And in the same research that I've been doing, there was an actual article from Harvard that was saying that they do pose certain products in low income areas on purpose. It's devastating to me, I can't believe this is actually not more known, not more like address, not more discussed, not more, you know, heavily known even by parents. So let's say, you know, if you are a parent, like your friends that are these people that you know, that have been, you know, their hair relaxed since they were 3 or 4 years old, how is it that their parents don't know that these chemicals aren't good for them?
Akua: They probably do know, but I mean, I would have hoped that they wouldn't know and still use those things, but I think a lot of people, a lot of times, even just without hair products, a lot of us don't even read ingredients on the food labels. So I don't think that people are reading the ingredients, they're just more so focused on the end result. Like, how do I make this hair more manageable? And so that my baby is not crying or running away from me, but every time she sees me pick up the comb to go comb her hair. I think just. Advertising, marketing, all of those things play a role in it as far as making it more appealing to people to just do it without even knowing what goes into it. They're not reading the ingredients. Because I would hope that they, if they knew that this is the same ingredient that's being used to unclog drains, that you would know. Like, I'm not going to put that on my head. I mean, I wouldn't.
Johanna: Yes, of course. Have you seen anything or within, you know, speaking to so many different health and beauty professionals on your podcast or maybe from your own experience and knowledge, have you seen where there's been like massive lawsuits against certain hair products or brands or maybe even you know, people uprising in response to a situation that has happened. So for example, here recently in just the regular cosmetic world overarching, we've seen multiple brands cause hair loss, including Olaplex. Olaplex is a big brand, you know, they're small bottles.
Akua: All of the influencers are pushing Olaplex. And that's another thing too. We have influencer marketing now, so we have your favorite influencer saying that: Oh, Olaplex does this to my hair. I'm not going to read the ingredients, I'm probably just going to go off of what they're saying.
Johanna: It came out like a year or 2 ago, it was pretty startling because even at some point and you know, I'll be honest, I like to dabble and try different things, but I've actually been more conservative since having alopecia, I I've been much more conservative in what I try and don't try and what I, you know, dabble in, I actually make a lot of my own products, but in terms of of Olaplex, this is huge because this targeted a very you know, socioeconomic status, you know, each little bottle is $20 so that alone just tells you, you know, who can purchase, who can't, who, you know, you found it at Sephora, you only found it at, you know, certain retailers. You're not going to find this at target, you're not going to find this at, at other places. So definitely when this came and hit the news, this was huge. At least for me, it was, it was huge.
Akua: There was another one that I heard of maybe about a couple of years ago, one of my friends who is a hairstylist was telling me like: Don't use this, and I was actually using this shampoo myself for you know, to wash my hair. I think it's like the organics brand.
Johanna: DevaCurl also has hair loss.
Akua: OGX, it was that brand. She was like: Do not use this. Like she experienced hair loss and just by talking to her clients and talking to them, she recognized that some of them had experienced hair loss with it. I didn't personally experience hair loss with it, but I stopped using it after she told me like: Don't use it. And then after that, I did see somethings start to come out and people on social media sharing their experience with the product as well. It's all in the marketing and we see organics. It has to be good for us, it's organic. Like it's organic.
Johanna: You're right, you're right. And the thing is with that one particular, they had a line called biotin and collagen which, you know, you automatically think that biotin and collagen is good for hair, good for hair growth and all of a sudden the whole line is tainted. The whole line was tainted with this hair loss inducing chemical, which was right there listed in the ingredients. You have to be really knowledgeable in order to see that. Is there anything you can share from your own experience or from experience of others in terms of how to recover? Let's say, what would this 11 year old have done? You know, so she does the relaxer for the first time, it was actually for her mother's wedding, and then the next day within 24 hours, she starts to see clumps of hair just come out all because of the relaxers. I've actually heard of this, even in adults, you know, in the salon, they're going to get their, just their hair dyed a different color and then all of a sudden their hair is coming out in clumps. It's insane. What have, you know, on a knowledgeable basis, have you seen or heard that people can do? Or you know, because at the salon, I'm not sure what they're able to do for you at that point.
Akua: Yeah, at that point, all I've heard of people doing as far as covering their hair is just wearing wigs. A lot of people have stepped into, I remember wigs used to just be for like grandmothers, remember, like your grandmother used to just wear wigs? But now it's like everybody's wearing wigs. So that's the only thing, because I know of a lot of people who say: Oh, my hair is natural, but they wear wigs to, you know, not put too much heat on their natural hair or to manipulate it too much, they'll wear a wig on top and then just work on repairing their hair underneath while they still have a protective style on top, so they can look presentable out in public. That's the only thing I know and from talking to people, like on the Friends in Beauty podcast, I come across a lot of people who like yourself said, like they might've experienced things like that. And then they started to experiment with making their own products at home. A lot of people are more so moving towards the more making things that are all natural, organic, homegrown ingredients and things like that, just to grow their hair back, that's what I've seen a lot of people doing is like moving towards, you know, those products now that are more natural.
Johanna: For sure. Natural, I truly believe is the only way to go at this point because you can't really trust, especially in the US. Having lived in Europe it's a, it's a different animal. They, they do protect you with at least two more thousand different chemicals not all of them, but, you know, the same, let's say, Johnson and Johnson baby shampoo in the EU versus the US, they have different types of chemicals and different types of ingredients, and the one in the EU is actually safer than the one in the US. And yet they're both, you know, marketed and they're both used for children. And so this is something that having lived in the EU, I know and it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate because it's in everything. It's not just in the shampoos, but it's also in baby formulas or in food or in, you know, the little snacks that they have for kids or anything else. But even for adults, it's horrific. In terms of your own experience, so you've gone natural your whole life. Was this a cognizant decision on your parents part, on your part, or how did this come about? And what do you think that percentage is of people who start off with natural hair and stay with their natural hair?
Akua: It was definitely a cognizant decision on my mother's part. Just the way that I grew up, I grew up very Afro centric. So I went to all African centered private schools growing up, and then at those schools, that was like the standard. The standard was, like, you could not have processed hair. We had to wear like traditional, like African clothes every day to school, like no nails, like as an adult, I just love my nails now, but like no nails. It was very much like a part of the curriculum that way. And I know for me of course, when you're younger, you're just like: Oh my God, I never had a desire really to have a perm, but just like everything just seems like, why me when you're younger, but as an adult, I really appreciate it. Especially because like, Just going to those places, you have a chance to see yourself before anything is manipulated. So I can see and appreciate myself as a black woman with my natural hair knowing that's how I naturally look like, this is the way my hair naturally grows out of my scalp, I'm not manipulating it. So it was a conscious decision on my mom's part. And then just as I got, got older and. I've seen the girls with the damaged hair because of perms and things like that and it wasn't cute. I'm like: I'm not trying to look like that. And then if anybody has seen the Malcolm X movie, there's a scene in the Malcolm X movie where the police come to arrest him and he's in the barbershop getting a perm in his hair. They turn off the water, because they wanted to like, you know, get them out, but they turned off the water. So when it was time for him to rinse the perm out, there was no water, so his scalp was like burning. Just see it as a kid, just always stuck in my head, like, why would I put this in my head for it to burn? Like I just never had any des desire to like like get a perm or relax my hair. But that was just because of my upbringing as well, so.
Johanna: Good for you, and where did you grow up?
Akua:I grew up in DC Washington, DC Born and raised.
Johanna: That's fantastic, you don't hear that too much. You hear about people just diving in deep into society and those norms and regardless of race or ethnicity, but everyone wants to fit in, right?
Akua: I'm not sure about the other people, like the percentage of people. I only know the people that grew up around me who are like similar now. And then of course, as an adult, you have free will. There of course are some people who grew up the way I grew up. But then as an adult, they're like: No, o, I want to get a perm. Like, this is what I'm doing and that's totally fine, if that's what you want to do. But I think a lot more people since there's a lot more awareness around product knowledge, a little bit more than it was back in the day. I think people who are having children now are a little bit more aware of what information is out there and they're choosing to go that route with their children. And then when they're old enough to make their own decision, then they can do that on their own.
Johanna: Yeah, in doing this research and, and really looking into your community and into, you know, just black hair in general. I started thinking back in my own childhood and I used to have really, really kinky, kinky, kinky curls, really tight and I can see a difference between when I was in my 20s till now in my 40s. And now it's like a more relaxed wave curly sometimes, depending if I'm in humid areas like Miami versus where I'm at now in the West. I do recall my mom taking me to the salon and actually I believe I was like 14 and trying to straighten my hair more. And so they probably used some sort of relaxer on me. It didn't work, my curls came back, they were aggressive, they were aggressive.
Akua: Up until like maybe the last 2 years or so, I don't even know if it's fully been implemented, but they don't even teach textured hair in cosmetology school. They don't. So now within maybe like the last year or 2, people have been pushing for that, they don't even teach how to deal with curly textured, Afro textured hair in cosmetology school. So you're going to these salons thinking like, okay, they should know what to do with my hair. Instead, they see your hair and they're like: Oh, just slap a perm on it and, call it a day because they have no clue even where to start. I remember when I was about 16 years old, my mom took me to this salon and I got my hair dyed. My hair was still, you know, natural, but I got my hair dyed like a red color and the lady called herself doing a style on my hair afterwards and it. I wish I could find a picture.
It was terrible because she didn't know what to do. Like she knew how to color my hair, but as far as styling it, if it's not straightening it, like manipulating it with heat or with a chemical, they don't know where to start. They don't even learn that in cosmetology school. So it's a lot of like foundational things as to why we're here. It's a lot of like systemic things as to why we're here. It's like a whole thing. Well,
Johanna: I mean, you can really almost compare and contrast to the whole, you know, situation with doctors, you know, going through alopecia and seeing a gazillion doctors and not getting answers and not getting any help or references. I mean, it's the same thing as trying to go to see any salon, any stylist and say: Okay, do my curls or do this and do that. In my 40 years, I've never found one stylist who does my hair the way I like it. Almost always I leave the salon with wet hair because I like to style it at home myself. I don't like the way they style it because it's just the way it is.
I think curly hair, ethnic hair kind of can be batched together in many ways because you have different types of curls. You have different types of curly textures, right? So many different variations of it, and it's all going to be treated differently, not all mousse or gels can work for the same curl or the same texture or the same, anything it's so different, it's so different. In speaking with or and in your knowledge, of course with all these professionals in beauty, what has been kind of the average of what a African American boy or girl grows up to? Like what's the average and what does that look like? And what have you seen? Like, what's the norm in terms of growing up hair products and, you know, hair solutions, like what age would you say is average for them to start relaxing their hair or. Yes, you've, you've heard of the three year olds. Yes, you've heard of, I just presented the 11 year old from a magazine, but what would be the average norm?
Akua: I would probably say average is a probably like preteen, teen age when you're kind of starting to find your own and start to experiment.
Johanna: Like 11, 12?
Akua: Yeah, like 11, 12, 12 to like 16 maybe when you're starting to, you know, make your own money or you getting your allowance so you can try things or experiment with things. And Yeah, you're getting influenced by your peers. Maybe you have natural hair. Your best friend doesn't, you know, and maybe you're getting that nudge to change your hair and try something different. I know for me that's, I didn't necessarily like perm my hair, but when I got to high school, I went to public school, I wasn't in the private schools anymore. So now I'm hanging out with the girls who have different hairstyles, not necessarily natural, but you know, you start to get influenced. a little bit just, you know, being a teenager and, you know, things like that, wanting to try different things, makeup and the hair and all. So I probably would say like preteen, teen, when you're trying to figure out your identity for yourself, like kind of have a little bit more free will as to say: No, I don't want my hair like this, mom, like I want to do this and them trying to like, let you find yourself.
Johanna: What would you say to someone who is not ethnically black, however may be married or partnered with someone who is, and they have a child because I hear that a lot too. Let's say it's, you know, either a different race from the husband or vice versa from the mom. Usually if it's the mom, the mom knows what's to do, but let's say it's a different race of a mom and they don't know what to do. And now you have this beautiful child who's got a mixture of hair and I've seen this at salons, like the curly hair salons and I've seen that where like this 6, 7 year old child is there with curly hair, gorgeous mix, you know black and white. And yet the stylist who is like not ethnic whatsoever, doesn't know how to treat the hair. And it's just like: Ah, what do I do? And it's just like, what, what tips would you give to any listeners who are in the same situation?
Akua: Just take them to someone who specializes in that. I think there are a lot, you just have to do your research. There are a lot of people out here now who specialize in curly hair because they may have curly hair themselves, or they just seen the challenges that people have a curly hair. Just do your research and find someone who specializes in curly hair. If you want to learn how to do your child's hair, maybe take some classes. There are hairstylists out here specifically for that reason. I can't remember off of the top of my head, but I've seen it before. There are hairstylists out here specifically for biracial children and like to help the parents learn how to like take care of their hair and to do their hair. So it would just take a little bit extra work, but yeah, take them to a specialist. Don't let anybody play in your child's hair.
Johanna: I want to go ahead and add there that naturallycurly.com is also a great website. You can verify what type of curl you have. There's like 3A, 3B, 3C, 4A, 4B, 4C,and it all just depends on what your curl looks like and so you match it up. And then this website also helps you to, they recommend products for you. But again, you have to look with a really good eye in terms of those ingredients and to see like what the style is looking for. And in all honesty, I truly believe less is more in terms of products. I think a lot of what we're trying to achieve can and should come from within because it can. Yes, products are necessary depending on where you live, but it's also harnessing, and maybe embracing it. I remember so many people hated the humidity in Florida when I lived there and I loved it, my curls loved it, my skin loved it, and I just embraced it.
Okay, sure. I have like an extra oil slick on my forehead, but at the same time, you know, like this is the beauty of that glow, right. That, that you're trying to achieve. And this is all natural, right? Oil slick and all. So I feel like sometimes embracing where we live and then, you know, if you don't like where you live, maybe you live in Arizona where it's super dry and you're, you know, feeling the lack of moisture in your hair or your skin, you know, maybe it's time to move, you know and then think about that. But then I think you can curtail certain situations, you know, maybe having a mister for your face or for your hair if you live in a dry spot or in a dry zone, let's say the desert, this type of thing in DC, you still live there in DC?
Akua: I still do. And it's very humid here.
Johanna: I was just gonna say you have lots of humidity there and then plus, it's a very condensed area. There's no offshore breeze like in Miami, you have the Potomac and you also have, you know, the Tri City area. So it's congested with, with not just the, the heat, but heat from cars, heat from buildings and all the people in it. Any other tips or tricks that you could you know, provide our listeners or even any other references for maybe where to go or where to start in terms of understanding their hair better or maybe their child's hair or even, you know, a family member's hair a little bit better.
Akua: Yeah, like I said, definitely do your research and give the products time to work. I know a lot of people try different products like layered on top of each other, but you can't really tell if a product is working if you're adding 4 or 5 other things on top, just be patient with finding what works for you. Like there is a lot of trial and error still with natural hair, be patient, maybe try some natural remedies or natural, more so natural products just to avoid in taking too many chemicals because, you know, we already have the environment, we have the things that we're eating, all these things that contribute to our health as well, and then on top of that, the hair products.
Johanna: You know, at one point, especially having curly hair, diva curl was kind of the, the way to go. And in all honesty, I don't like diva curl cuts. I've had them done and it's not enough for me. The times that my hair has been butchered has been by people who don't have curly hair, who don't understand curly hair, who want to cut it like straight hair and it's not, and it's left me horrifically, you know, misaligned in terms of my curls because you know, they'll just You know, go back up and scrunch up.
Akua: Yeah, do some research on the stylists as well. Cause I just told you all, don't forget that a lot of them don't learn how to do texture hair or curly hair in cosmetology school. So make sure you're looking at their work, have a conversation with them, get some references if you need to, just make sure you're doing your research on these stylists and making sure that they can actually achieve what you're trying to achieve and like have results to back it up.
Johanna: Yes, I recommend that too, because, and even speaking, because I've, I've done presentations at Paul Mitchell and at other beauty schools across the nation, and none of them get any education on alopecia. They know how to spot it, they know how to tell you, hey, you need to go see a doctor, but that's it. They get zero education on this and I was just like: No, no, no, no, no, there's got to be a better way. So I started educating them myself because I was like, they need to be able to harness kind of like that fear, that situation, and be able to say: Hey, here are your options versus just go to a doctor because that's going to be a black hole of sorts.
Akua: Right, but they're just going to push hormones or steroids on you or something.
Johanna: Exactly. Anything else that you'd like to leave our, our listeners with?
Akua: I wish you all the luck, you know, all good luck, you're beautiful just the way that your hair grows out of your scalp. If you want to change that and do something different for fun, that's totally up to you, but just know that how you are right now, you are beautiful and there are solutions out there for you is just going to take a little bit of work and research to find that, but once you do, the rest is going to be history.
Johanna: Thank you so much, Akua. You are such a shining light and I love your energy and your beautiful smile. Thank you.
Akua: Thank you, thank you very much.
Johanna: You're welcome.
