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Johanna: I am really excited to showcase our next guest on the Alopecia Angel

Podcast. Right now is with Debra Atkinson. She is a pioneer in menopause fitness,

health, and fitness expert. Debra Atkinson has helped more than 275,000 women flip

their second half with energy and vitality. She's bestselling author of: You Still Got It

Girl!: The After 50 Fitness Formula for Women and Hot, Not Bothered. Debra hosts

Flipping 50 TV and internet broadcast and the Flipping 50 podcast with over 3.5 million

downloads, and she means business specifically for her health and fitness coaches.

Her TEDx talk is everything women and menopause learned about exercise may be a

lie. She's the creator of the first and only exclusively made for menopause fitness

membership and the Flipping 50 menopause fitness specialists, training for trainers and

health coaches. Welcome, Debra. I'm really excited to talk about everything,

menopause, fitness, health, and so much more.

So welcome Debra to the Alopecia Angel podcast. I'm so thrilled that you are here. I met

you at a conference and for those of you who are listening and who can't see her, she

walks the walk, talks the talk, and she is everything that you could imagine of being fit

over 50. She's gorgeous, fit, healthy, radiates, and, you just gravitate towards her like

cake in the aisles, you just gravitate towards it because it's incredible. I was just like,

what is she doing? What is she drinking, eating? Tell me all, what is it that you're doing

to look so fabulous over 50?

Debra: Oh, bless your heart. Thank you so much. What a great welcome, I'm so glad to

be here, thanks for in inviting me.

Johanna: Anytime. I know you're a wealth of knowledge and I'd love to share your

story, maybe how you got into this or maybe even your expertise all around, being fit

over 50.

Debra: Yeah. I will tell you total transparency. Flipping 50, the name of the business

actually happened quite by accident. It was an afterthought. I left in-person fitness, I left

a university position as a senior lecturer in kinesiology, I'd been there for 15 years. And

then I left. The private sector, personal training director of a growing scaling business

with 3 locations had at least 20 trainers at the time. And I felt like I had done everything I

could do, and that it was somebody else's turn to grow them. And I could have stayedvery comfortable, being maybe a big fish in a little pond and. I felt like I needed to give

back.

I saw some holes in the fitness industry that for consumers I wanted better, and for the

really great trainers, I also wanted better. I wanted there to be a better trust for

consumers to fitness experts to know that they found the good ones. That's why I left

and immediately I thought I can't just be working with trainers and coaches and saying:

Here's what you should do. Here's how to build your business so that good people

seeking, you can find good trainers. I had to be doing it or very quickly I was gonna be

irrelevant. So I said, okay, I gotta go pick one of the niches that I've been working with

most, and that niche had been by accident again, for the last 30 years. I was always

matched with older clientele as a student and undergrad even and I worked with baby

boomers primarily.

So women who were in their forties and fifties were my primary clients all the way

through. Little did I know I was doing research at the time, but all those clues came back

to benefit. And when I started Flipping 50, just for the purpose of teaching trainers and

health coaches how to grow their business, that business really took off 'cause nobody

was talking menopause fitness is different. We need to change it because the hormones

are changing. And I was lucky in that I was in a moment in time where my hormones

were changing, and I was so busy that I as an endurance lover could not do the

endurance that would've been the antichrist and the nemesis for me. I couldn't do it

'cause I was so busy.

So I started doing really short workouts and a year later I was like: I'm in the best shape

of my life and I'm used to doing hours a day. What happened here and as I started

unpacking all of it, I began to realize how little research is actually based on females

and how for women in midlife or menopause, the biggest hormonal change they're

gonna go through they were being way underserved.

Johanna: Yeah, all the time, all the time. We need more eyes on women and, how

things affect us because there are a lot of fat diets, a lot of things to lose that extra

weight that maybe is stubborn at the time of menopause or even before. And, women

try keto and they try this and they try that. And then for some it backfires, for others it's

great. And for others you just add on more weight and you're like: What happened?

What did I do wrong? And so you're always left wondering how is this really gonna be

tailored to me, or personalized to me.

But going back to menopause, what are like the top 5 things that you would say to your

younger self or to a younger client. This is what you need to be expecting, this is how

you get there and how you embrace it. Almost going to college, how do we get there?

How do we maneuver and navigate this? And how do we successfully graduate?

Debra: Definitely I would, no matter when you're listening, and how old you are, but in

your late 20s early 30s you're at your peak muscle mass, and I would start monitoring it

right then. And I would also have said go get a DEXA scan, even if insurance won'tcover it. This is gonna be worthwhile to benchmark when you're at your peak so that we

actually know if we do it again when you're 50 or 60. Before you've lost too much bone

we can mitigate it. We know it's happening. We know your habits aren't working, but a

lot of times, many of us right now didn't know we needed that smart scale in the

bathroom, the one that tells us how much muscle mass we have, how much body

composition we have. So start early measuring would be number one, benchmark. Your

muscle mass, your bone density, and some of those things for those of you who are, 30,

they're not gonna be covered by insurance, but I guarantee you that's gonna be one of

the best investments you make when you're 40, 45 or 50.

Start now because it's changed already, and I can reverse that. The sooner we catch it,

the easier it is to reverse. Then take a good look at what you're eating and really look at

if you're skipping or skimp on meals, macronutrients or micronutrients. We're really

learning, its total calories, it is protein, but it is also micronutrient density. So we can't

just say: Pop some essential amino acids and boom, now you've got your protein

covered. You're missing, the vitamin B, the vitamin D, the omega 3s, the zinc, the

selenium, all the things that are in food when you take a bite and you chew it. And so we

can't get outta jail on that one. We can't just get a hall pass, take a pill, pour it out of a

package.

The next thing I would say is treasure sleep, guard it with your life, and start getting

good habits right now. I think it can be hard, if you're raising kids and especially raising

kids and you've got a career, you have to get up and be somewhere. You've got things

to do in the evening, kids may not be sleeping, or you've got teens who you have to

keep one ear open until past your bedtime. There's those things, but when you can do

everything you can to get good, high quality sleep now, and that will help you later.

Hormones may change what happened to you. But the other test that I would suggest

that you do is test your hormones. So you know, if you've gone through a pregnancy,

you've gotta wait for them to settle back down. But then between 30 and 35, take a

hormone test. If you're feeling good, then your hormones are at reproductive peak.

And again, many of us don't ever do a hormone test until we wonder if: Am I really in

menopause? Is that what's going on? Or am I thinking about HRT? But what we don't

have, we're only able to compare you to norms. So it would be so much better if we

could compare ourselves to ourselves when we were at our own peak felt really good,

'cause that ultimately is where we wanna get and now we're only going: Okay, let's get

you according to optimal or norms, and then talk about how you feel. But we would be

more specific if we knew where we'd been. So that would be another one.

And then, I think the last is make sure you are able to deal with stress. So figure it out,

what's in your toolbox? Is it laughter? Is it friends? Is it sunshine? Is it being by yourself?

Is it journaling? Is it meditation? Is it music? Is it all of the above? You might have a

different tool for the different kind of stressors that we all get. But, if you can deal with

stress, because that is gonna be a pivotal change for us when we go through

menopause, when estrogen comes down, cortisol goes up. So even the stressors we

thought we had a handle on, we won't deal with as well our response will be different inour body. It'll be amplified, so we have to get a handle on that. And the sooner we do the

better off we'll be when we get to menopause.

I think if you could just know these changes will come and we take them as it's a sign,

it's a symptom. It's just like when you're in 7th grade and you do a lab experiment. You

can still get an A if you failed your experiment. If your writeup is really good and your

conclusion about what should be happening next is really good, you can still get an A.

And so, if the symptom of belly fat or sleepless nights is happening, take it as a clue, not

as a sentence.

Johanna: And in hindsight, what were some of the pitfalls or things that you see a

majority of your clients go through that maybe they put it on the back burner, maybe

they didn't give it enough attention until it's too late. What are some of those things that

we should be really aware of? For example, with alopecia. There's a whole host of

things happening, but until we start seeing our hair loss, that's when we're like: Okay,

stop the car, let's do something right now. So what are those pitfalls or those mistakes

that women do once they're entering menopause that they're just ignoring? Or maybe

just putting other people first and not giving themselves the attention or the space in

order to say: Hey, this requires and needs my attention right now.

Debra: I think it comes back to not measuring. I think we, we've, we relaxed a little bit

and it was an okay thing to do at the moment, but now if I could go back and as a

fitness instructor and health coach and for myself, if I could go back and give myself

other advice, it would be the benchmarking. We looked at getting away from

compulsively, weighing and measuring and use our clothes and the way our clothes fit

as the gauge. That can get a slippery slope, right? So your clothes may still feel pretty

good like they fit, okay. Because if you're losing muscle mass and you know it's being

replaced by fat, not necessarily are you growing fat, but you are at a higher fat

percentage you may not notice until you get to a certain critical mass.

For most women that is: My skinny jeans don't fit anymore. I can't button these. These

are getting tight. It was happening for years and we just didn't know it, 'cause we weren't

really monitoring muscle mass and body fat. We weren't seeing it happen in real time.

So that I think is the biggest thing, and when we feel like there's what we call weight

loss resistance, now, you're doing everything you can't get results. Do I need to have

my hormones checked? What do I need to do? Do I need to be on HRT? The backlash

from it is we resort right now still. My hope is that someday this dogma dies, which is:

Eat less and exercise more.

When a woman already in stress, under stress because just she punched that ticket of

midlife and hormones are changing so automatically we're under more stress. Your

body perceives more stress and you respond in a bigger way to all stressors that you've

got. When you exercise more, exercise is a stress and we know it to be a good hormetic

stressor. But it's gotta be in the right dose. If you need medicine, and we were saying

exercise is medicine. You don't take somebody else's medicine, you have to take yours

for the illness that you've got right now and I'm not calling menopause and illness, but ifwe can liken it that to that. Same idea. You donate kale or salmon when you have the

stomach flu, even though they're very quote unquote healthy foods for most of us.

So we have to think about, how much should you be doing right now? If we're pushing

the accelerator on exercise, trying to exercise more and eat less, we're essentially one

foot on the accelerator, one foot on the brake, we're just burning out. Our body is under

greater and greater stress and we won't get the result we want. In fact, we'll probably

feel worse and risk adrenal fatigue because that is so related to the additional stress

factor that happens particularly for women between 40 and 50. That's really the time

perimenopause is going on. You're probably still having a cycle, might not be as

predictable, it may be very predictable for you up until a certain point for those of you

who are on birth control that controls that. Even though you think you're cycling, you

may actually not be.

It's a false kind of a phantom period. It's just being controlled by the. Pill. So you may

not actually know where you are in proximity to menopause. It can be get to be, greater

stressors. And if you aren't feeling good doing the exercise you are, that's the biggest

sign. Pay attention, let's change it.

Johanna: That's beautiful said, very well said. My other question would be what

happens when, let's say you're in your 40s, you have regular cycles, you haven't hit

menopause yet, but then we also start to see women who are having kids later in life.

How would this affect, let's say, the high cortisol or your exercise or any of these other,

because you're no longer the 30 year old, you're now in your 40s. It's a different animal,

so to speak.

Debra: It is such a different animal, and that is a whole other can of worms. I've got a

couple of great friends who are in that boat. You're postnatal and perimenopausal. And

it's like: How does that feel for you? I watched them function really well, and I think I did

that in my 30s, I don't know how I would've done that in my 40s. I had one who wanted

to graze all night. I don't know about anybody else, but there's a reason people don't

have babies when they're 60. So I could not do that now, yeah. But all the things going

on, when you think postnatal, your body is coming back and it takes a full year. You just

created a human, so no big deal, but it takes a full year for your body to come back to a

homeostasis, if that's all you were dealing with.

Then if you go full throttle into, perimenopause, now you have additional fatigue on top

of that, your hormones are still not back on track from the birth. So you've gotta deal

with all of it, and most likely you are gonna need to take hormone testing much more

regularly. So frequency of that to get dialed back on. I'm speaking from a standpoint of

whether or not you wanna do HRT, because I think those who say: I don't want to, for

whatever reasons, it's every woman's choice. I think you still wanna be looking at what

are the lifestyle habits then that I am really focused on because it's between your

exercise, your nutrition, adaptogens, so whether those are mushrooms or

ashwagandha, that kind of thing that you're introducing, your sleep habits and or yourability to control those if you have a newborn, good luck with that. Yeah, again, I dunno

how to do that.

But I think we're gonna see more and more of that because we've got more professional

young women awaiting delaying childbearing because it's a choice and because they

can. We're seeing, you know, healthy births happen for women, in their late 40s, and so

we know it's possible. If a woman chooses to do that, then she should have it, if that's

what she wants to do.

Johanna: In regards to the research for HRT, I've been reading a lot of books on

hormones and on menopause and all these wonderful topics, and it seems like your real

options are HRT bioidentical or don't do it at all, because of ramifications, because of

the side effects. What's your take on that?

Debra: So if we look at fitness and I were just purely to say: Okay over here is the

program design, that includes how many sets, how many repetitions, which exercises in

what order, the volume of those, the risk between the rest, between sessions. If we just

said that, anything that I can give a woman has a greater efficacy if she is on

bioidentical hormones. We're seeing that just anecdotally, I share that with you and from

looking and talking to and interviewing many of the pioneers in bioidentical hormones

and working with hormones and should we and shouldn't we from the NHANES study

and the nurses study from that being withdrawn and negated, those thoughts are still

there, but they too are seeing in their office, day after day, seeing patient after patient.

They echo the same thing that for their patients who are on HRT, the exercise that

they're doing has greater efficacy. So for anyone choosing not to or for what now is a

very small percent of women who can't. You may choose, you don't want to, but for

those who can't, it's a very small number at this point. It's not to say that you can't get

progress. Somebody may have an edge that you don't because of the support. But I will

say that there's also this genetic and DNA piece to it that some women get lucky and

they got the right parents. And so they do have an easier time. They're still able to say,

hit the protein need and calories and get nutrient density. They've got good habits and

they're getting good results with their exercise, even without bioidentical hormones.

So it's not totally dependent on it, but above all, if I had to say whether body

composition or bone density, which is a big concern for a lot of women in probably later

50s and into 60s,, even more the efficacy of being able to see change, more muscle,

more bone density, reversing losses is better with.

Johanna: In terms of. Let's say all of a sudden we're just going through life and this

person just wakes up one day and she realizes she's no longer in her normal state,

she's now in menopause and she's never taken any action, she's never really done

anything, she's been too busy having a family, corporate life, et cetera. What are some

tips that you'd say, this is what you need to do now, because you're already right now in

the midst of it.Debra: I might send her to you and say: Johanna, what books have been most

beneficial for you? 'cause I think educating yourself a little bit on and educating yourself

a little bit could be key words. So educate yourself enough with a high quality source so

that you're not overwhelmed, 'cause there's a lot of information out there, and I think

there's a lot of voices. But educate yourself first and think: What choices do I have in

front of me? So I'm making informed choices and then looking at what feels good to me,

and know that whatever is feeling good to you right now could be in this moment next

year, 6 months from now, we can change our minds. It's a woman's prerogative. It's still

gonna be and always gonna be, so I think what feels right, you may want to reexamine.

I'll throw this one out there. 'cause I think it's a big question. I don't feel symptoms

necessarily, so do I need HRT? A lot of women will say that. And between 5 and 10

years ago, I personally said I don't feel the need for it. So I'm gonna go off of it and I did.

And now if I could go back, knowing what I know, it's for the long game. It's not for hot

sweats or hot flashes and night sweats, it's not even necessarily for the weight or the

belly fat or the libido or the bone density, it's the long game. It's the brain, the muscle,

and the bone health that until science changes enough now, I'm a believer and I'll stay

on it till death do us apart. Unless science changes dramatically, we're the first

generation who's really gonna see it through to death.

Johanna: Yeah. I agree with you. I'm more and more of a believer in HRT. Both my

mom and my grandma took out their uterus, and, my grandma's about to turn 89, my

mom's 68. So my mom, after her second, like in her early 40s her third kid, she decided

to take it out and it was by advice by her male doctor. She didn't do any research. I

know my mom, she didn't do any research, she just was like guided by the doctor and

she's okay, let's just take it out. I have lots of heavy periods, they're always

uncomfortable. It's always an issue, let's go ahead. They did a biopsy on the uterus.

Apparently there was cancerous cells, and they just checkmark, like you're in the clear

now.

She's been suffering with hot flashes forever and a day. I don't know how her symptoms

are now, but I would assume that they're more either under control or better potentially.

But at the same time, both of them I can honestly say, didn't do their research, didn't

realize what they were truly doing for long term, for anti-aging, for their dementia risk,

for anything else. Like I was just reading this book. Literally it's on my nightstand all

about hormones and how in menopause the increase and the possibility to double or

even triple our possibility for dementia as women going through menopause has

skyrocketed when you compare it towards men.

I found this to be quite astounding. I wasn't necessarily expecting to read this, and yet,

this is not making headline news, and yet then we start to understand why there's a diet

and lifestyle component to Alzheimer's, to dementia, to all these cognitive issues. So I

just wanted to understand your take on it and if you could give us any other further

insights.Debra: Yeah it directly related to what I do. I think women have always been at higher

risk for all things related to cognitive disability, so Alzheimer's, dementia, and mood

disorders like anxiety and depression, both situational but also longer term. We outlive

men and right away there's one, so just as we age, we're more at risk because simply

we're living longer. But it's also, I think we go through periods of, we grieve more times

in our life than men do. And there are things that we bear, not just children, but we bear

the load and the emotional load of so many things that, that also, I think how we carry

and deal with stress is different. But in regard to what can you do with exercise and

nutrition and these are actually very related.

Exercise is a huge mood boost and I think a lot of times, historically less so now, I think

we're so much more aware of this. And I think once you will have the discipline and

commitment to stick with it long enough. If you're not somebody who has bonded with

exercise, found that thing you love and really need to do. If you will have discipline and

commitment for a short period of time, you'll get to the point where you know you feel

better, you function better on the days you do than on the days you don't. And I think for

a lot of people that comes more naturally and others are on the other size, like they

never experienced that.

And there is something to the fact that if you tend to be a larger size woman, if you are a

percent body fat is at 30 or greater, you don't respond the same. You don't have that

same feel good hormonal response to exercise the way someone else does. So it's not

just you, it's there's nothing wrong with you. It's not lack of willpower, discipline,

commitment, conviction, it's you, you don't have that. So it's really important that you

choose self-selected intensity that nobody's choosing for you immediately, because then

the chance that you'll return to it.

Feel successful, but also have the chance. Give yourself the fighting chance to feel

good. Doing it is important. Your blood chemistry does change within seconds of starting

exercise. And so I'd like to advocate the 10 minute rule. Not all of us feel like exercising

every day, even those of us who do it, there are moments where it's: I'm busy. I have

such a long to-do list, I just soon dive into the to-do list or you one more thing yourself is

what I call it, one more thing myself out of time to exercise and I think, was it really

worth it? I only have 20 minutes now, and the answer is yes, is worth it. Like just moving

is worth it. But we need to, give ourself that 10 minute rule. If you don't feel like it, if you

go for 10 minutes. At that 10 minute mark, if you still don't feel good, go back home,

stop, you're done.

And you probably are getting sick or have some adrenal insufficiency and rest is the

best thing for you. But most of us will be glad we started and we'll keep going. There is

very few people that don't feel better after their exercise. Some of us, just because

we're done right, but most of us feel better when we're done exercising than before we

started. And so very few people will have a regret about doing that. But it is the

advantage of blood flow to the brain to help us cognitively think better. And if you think

about, okay, we're degrees away from Alzheimer's if we're talking about it but in a way

we're not. So if you are cognitively functioning better, it's like there's a bunch of electricaloutlets on the wall and there's a bunch of unplugged cords laying on the floor as you are

exercising. Especially you're learning something new and it doesn't matter if you go to

pickleball for the first time and you're learning how to score, which is very complicated, I

think.

You learn how to do that, or you're learning how to do use a new machine at the gym,

the learning component as well as the movement component, when you pair them

together, that's gold for your brain. Those plugs are getting plugged into the wall. It's like

you're rewiring your brain and you're getting more synapsis firing so that you can

remember better. Your hippocampus gets bigger if you go for a walk 10 minutes a day,

40 minutes, 3 times a week if you wanna do it that way has proven to increase the size

of the hippocampus, meaning you won't forget things or remember why you walked into

a room.

So many good things happen that you know, may not feel like: Oh, that's related to

Alzheimer's or dementia. But if we can get those synopsis firing. For women who are

exercising regularly, a lot of times one of the limiters is aches and pains. And either I

can't get started because I've already got these aches and pains, or after I exercise, I

have these aches and pains. And again, part of that is related to a decline of estrogen,

that connective tissue, the joints and the ligaments around, connections or weaker,

they're not as resilient. They're a little more dry, if you will. And so not as pliable. Omega

3s become really important, so omega 3s is in the foods we eat, like fish or salmon,

lamb, certain foods are high in omega 3s.

But I find that supplementing, I know for me, if I'm dialing up training, I know I'm

increasing my own inflammation, like I'm choosing to do it. So I'm going to take

something to help counter that inflammation and supplementing with omega threes can

be really helpful. The amount of supplementation is probably beyond what's on the

bottle for most people, and it tends to be safe for muscle, for bone and brain, there's

benefit for all three. So if we're taking it even to decrease the aches and pains in the

knees, your brain is actually gonna benefit as well.

Johanna: So what would you say are the most important pillars of exercise?

Debra: Okay, so lots of ways I could state this, but when we talk about the components

of fitness that are most important for women in menopause for now and for later, so it's

a two for one. It's strength, it's definitely muscle strength, muscle power. So the ability to

do things explosively because when we're 80 or 90, we're gonna think.

It's explosive to get up and out of a chair. So I don't know about you, but my grandma

sat in a rocking chair and it was always like 5 or 6 rocks and then we could go. It's like

launching across the room, but yeah. I'm like: Please God, don't let me get to that point.

But power, and getting up, now what it looks like is moving through motions faster,

jumping, leaping, agility, reaction skills kinds of things. You can lift weights with a little

speed, we don't lower them with speed, so it's not momentum. There's a difference, but

you can lift with a speed component as long as you safely decelerate. Then there'sdynamic balance, and I think that's gonna be more important that we distinguish that a

lot of women think they're working on balance when they are in a cool, dark, quiet, calm

room doing tree pose.

And I would have to argue with that because very few women fall in that environment.

We fall when it's windy, you got one arm and groceries, you're trying to open the door

with the other one, you're trying to locate your keys, so we need to practice. Dynamic

balance means our center of gravity moves away from our base of support. We should

practice doing things like that regularly. So it's not the pose itself, it's actually getting into

and out of yoga poses that is the most beneficial part of yoga. Big key there.

So mobility is the last one, but not the least one. Had you asked me this probably 2

years ago even, I would've said the most important component of this is strength. It's

the muscle that allows us to do all the other activities that we need to do to age well.

And today I think I've just seen that many more women, I've heard that many more

women watch them move and I realize that even people who are just walking don't have

quite as good of range of motion moving through all joints as those. So it doesn't have

to be yoga, but I do think we need to pay particular attention to our upper back, to our

hips, and to our ankles.

Because most of us have been walking on those ankles since we were 10 months old.

Unless you were an overachiever and you walked at 8, I don't know. They are the one

joint that almost all of us will experience degeneration in. So we need to maintain that

mobility, otherwise we all become senior shuffler, right? We don't pick up our toes

anymore 'cause we don't have the mobility and we wanna stay stable. So that's a big

one.

Johanna: Wow, that's incredible. So going back to my grandma. I love Pilates by the

way, I love Pilates, I love yoga. But what really got me into Pilates was seeing ladies, I

was in my 20s when I first started, was seeing ladies. In their 60s and 70s and holding a

plank longer than I could and doing things that I couldn't do at 22 or 23 when I first

started. And I was just amazed. I was like: Oh my God, these women are rocking it. I

was like: If they look like this and they're, in their 60s and 70s, I've got a lot to look

forward to. So when my grandma retired, she was 75 and she's: I have so much extra

time and I have so much energy. I was like: Start Pilates, and she did with a private

trainer. And she had never really done any exercise regime. It was just walking,

carrying. It was like the normal, I guess day-to-day things that she had to do for her

company, but then also at home. Not to say that she never lifted weights 'cause she

never did.

And so when she started Pilates, she did see a shift. A shift in how the mobility with her

hips and her legs and everything just changed and it is very transformative. What other

types of exercise would you recommend for somebody? Let's say who's just starting or

who's over 50 or maybe 45+ who hasn't been so disciplined or so committed because of

life and because maybe they're caregivers or because we have caregivers for theirparents or for their own kids and just life has gone by and they're just trying to, keep

their head up.

Debra: Great question. That's a great story too. I would agree. I think right now. There's

a lot of things very easily accessible. If are Googling YouTube for instance, and I would

just be, cautious in Googling so that you get something for beginners, for first timers, for

starters, and be sure that you watch it before you do it. But lying on your side even and

doing some stretching on your own. It doesn't have to be put in a container of Pilates

necessarily or of yoga. But looking at if you were to lie on your side and do what I call a

clam, where you're opening up your arm and you're putting it all the way back here. So

we're getting spinal rotation.

Another great exercise is Tai chi, and I think that is welcoming to a beginner, it's very

calm. It works on shifting body weight, that base of support we talked about off of your

center of gravity, off of your base of support and moving very fluidly. So I think it puts

you in tune with your body, your balance, and it is calming at the same time. I think what

you're looking for when you start is you wanna gain confidence, you wanna be

successful, you wanna feel good when you're done, not feel as if you were pushed or

tugged or stretched too far, and find something that fits. It may be slightly different for

anyone here.

Johanna: I agree. I lived in Japan, you probably didn't know that I lived in Japan for a

little bit right before, it's been a year and a half that I've now been back in the States

after living in Japan and bike riding around early in the morning, you see all types of

workers, whether it's factory workers, shop owners, etcetera, corporate workers, they're

all doing some sort of exercise like Tai Chi, before they ring the bell and everyone goes

into work. This is fascinating because these are mid-level managers, these are all

different types of employees at these different shops and factories and whatnot, and

you're like, it looks just like PE, it brought me back to my elementary school where

everyone's doing the same thing. There's one teacher, he's the conductor, and

everyone's doing whatever it is, whether it's a stretch, a jumping jack, or what have you.

I found this quite fascinating and what I love too is that in the parks you would see a lot

of elderly people congregate and do their Tai Chi. And so I love seeing the nuances to

this. When I lived in the Netherlands, everybody was riding a bicycle. Pregnant ladies. I

was 7 months pregnant and I was still riding a bicycle because that was so common

here in the US actually wouldn't see that, but in the Netherlands, this is very common.

And even like elderly people in their 90s in their really early 90s, they're still riding

bicycles. That's their commute, that's how they go to the supermarket, that's how they

do everything, even in the snow.

They ride their bicycle, which I found like: I'm not gonna do that, not in the snow, but

they do. Rain, sleet, hail, you name it, they're in, they're outside bearing the elements

on their bicycles. And have you had the chance, I don't know, this is why I'm asking.

Have you had the chance to ever look or see, how other cultures embrace or notembrace exercise and how that has helped them longevity wise, because you have that

in other cultures, but not necessarily in ours.

Debra: Yeah, that's such a great comment. Yeah, I love that too. And I think, indirectly,

so we see it with Dan Buettner who does Blue Zone's work. He's constantly sharing

what he finds. I grew up, my adult life, my young adult life grew up for 30 years in a

university town. And I can recall groups of ethnic groups also, in the park doing Tai Chi

as I would of course be huffing and puffing and running by listening to an iPod. Totally

not where they were doing that mental space, doing the counter opposite. But, it always

seemed like such a ritual and just so beautiful that they stop, they pause. And so

beautiful. So watching that, and I think that asians really have an edge over this. I think

they have a real distinct way of honoring family, of exercising calmly.

Racket sports are also big for them, which gets them, they were playing badminton

before most of us were in our university community. Badminton was a big thing at the

rec center, but many of the Asian women were the ones who started it, and they were

the anchors. And it grew so that, 50, 60 and 70 year olds were really primarily the ones,

but they go every day. I think that it's true that other cultures do a much better job of:

This is just a part of life. It's just a way, it's not a conscious thing they do, it's just who

they are. And to your point, I think it's very important to realize and have that kind of

exposure and surround yourself with community who is doing what you're doing or

doing what you wanna be doing.

That it's at least easier now that the internet to connect with people no matter where you

live. So if you're in North Dakota and no one has that desire for the lifestyle that you

have an itch for, there is a way to connect with people who do and that can support you.

If you've got resistance to it, you know where you are.

Johanna: I've loved our discussion, I love talking to you. I feel like I can talk to you for

days upon days. Are there any other last tips or, words of advice that you'd love to offer?

Debra: First it's never too late, no matter where you are, if you're, in your 70s and just

now realizing: I wish I had a startup sooner. We can all say that most likely no matter

who we are, but you're still a virgin, and virgins can make the most progress. It is almost

always going from a starting point to just moderately fit, just even just the slightest more

physical activity, the smallest bits stronger, that actually gains you more years in your

life, more quality of years in your life. So you will get a big return on a small investment.

And I think the other thing would be: If you're struggling to do this for yourself, I think it's

the realization that we are big influencers. There's no more powerful health influencer in

the world than a midlife woman. We influence 3 generations at least some of you

potentially more, but our own children, our young adult children are youth that we

influence, our spouses, our friends, we're all leaning in, giving each other advice, and

our parents and in-laws, tend to look to a midlife woman to what she's doing. So as you

take care of yourself, as you eat, as you commit to habits, the world is watching. It's

more than about you, but it starts with you.Johanna: Amen to that. Wow, so inspiring. Thank you so much, Debra. Tell our

listeners where they can find you and how they can follow you.

Debra: Absolutely. So flippingfifty.com is the website. You can get there whether you

spell it out or you put the numbers in there, it'll get you the same place. And on social,

most were present: youTube, Facebook, and Instagram. All at flipping50tv.

Johanna: Excellent. Thank you so much, Debra. I've really enjoyed our time.

Debra: Thank you.