Transcript

 

Johanna: So Jessica, welcome to the Alopecia Angel Podcast: Awaken to Hair Growth.

It's so nice to have you.

Jessica: Thank you, nice to be here. Thanks for having me.

Johanna: Anytime. Tell our audience, who do you help and serve?

Jessica: I work with a lot of high achieving creative people who feel shut down in some

way or another. There's a spectrum of what that has meant, and when I say high

achieving, that can mean different things for different people. But they have some

vision, mission, purpose in the world that they're wanting to make a greater impact in

some way or another. There are things in the way of them being able to do that in their

fullest because of some things, perhaps there's a health component, usually there's

some health aspect that's really standing out in a big way. But there could be a lot of

things going on that are in the way. So we look at what that is and move forward.

Johanna: So today you are gonna be telling us about stages of healing and how this

has been representative for you and for your clients and what this looks like.

Jessica: Yeah, I think it'd be great to talk about that. I bet there's ways in which it can

overlap with some things you've even been through in your life. So it'd be curious to

hear about that.

Johanna: Yeah, we can have an open dialogue and conversation about it, so let's get

started.

Jessica: Great.

Johanna: So what's the first stage or what are some of the observations that you would

see?

Jessica: I think that this isn't always in any particular order. However, I do think that

there these all have to be present even when you. Even when you begin to question

them that you come back to them. Like for example, one of the first things I list is belief.

And what I mean by that is that even if it's not a hundred percent you believing that you

can heal or something can improve or change, that belief is a very powerful thing in ushaving faith or a belief. Even if it's 10% that you believe there's something in you that

knows it's possible. And again, it can change throughout time, like sometimes you feel

really low and you go, I don't know if I believe anymore, but some quiet voice in you

whispers, yes.

Other times you're like, yeah, I totally can conquer this. And then other times it's a really

small voice. So there's a spectrum to everything. But even with belief, that's true, but

belief has to be there. So that's one thing I find to be very true across the board is one

has to really believe is it's possible.

Johanna: I agree wholeheartedly. I always say that the first step to healing alopecia is

believing that you can because there's a famous quote from Henry Ford, the maker of

Ford Motors. Whether you can or you can't, you decide. You decide whether you can or

you can't. And so that's the power that we all have, that we innately can believe. And

even though we don't know the how or don't know how to get there, how to climb Mount

Everest or how to even start working out or start to healing our hair or our health issues,

that there is someone out there who can help us exactly, who can get us on the right

path. It's so true, it's so true, I agree.

Jessica: Sometimes it's not even our business to know how, in fact, that's the part of

what the journey becomes is you learning how along the way, you don't get to know the

how only by doing and believing and employing others and allowing others to step in

and help you and surrender to whatever is meant to be in the process of that believing

is like the undercurrent.

Johanna: I think a lot of it too goes with intuition because, for example, in my own

journey, and probably in everyone else who's listening, is that we've all seen multiple

doctors and not everyone can help us. We've seen multiple specialists, whether it's for

hair, fertility, hormones, thyroid, or anything else, and not everyone is gonna have the

time, the care, the knowledge, or even the actual toolkit to get you to where you need to

get to. That's been very apparent in my own journey, and I'm sure in yours too.

Jessica: What was the one thing?

I'm like you can never say the one thing because if it weren't for those 10 other things,

you don't even know what life would be like over here. It's an amalgam, it's a

combination of lots of things that somehow bring you to where you are. But you have to

believe along the way that somehow you're on the path, whatever that path is for you.

Johanna: 100%. Last week on the podcast, I had news about one of my new clients

who's a gut health coach, she's in her 60s and she's been in the gut health industry

before gut health was even a trendy name, and she's been dealing with hair loss for 20

years. She starts the program and literally within 24 hours, she emails me and she's just

by following. A portion, not even all of it, just a portion of your recommendations, my hair

loss stopped in 24 hours.So I had a coaching call and there was other people on the call and a lot of the other

people were like, astonished. And they're like: What? Are you serious? And they started

questioning her like: How do you know? How did you see this? How did you like

understand that your hair loss stopped? And she's I could just see it in the bowl. 'cause

she's got really long hair.

Jessica: Yes, she could see less, right?

Johanna: She could just see it in the bowl, like when she's, either shampooing or

whether she is, brushing her hair or anything. And so she's got dark hair against a white

porcelain bowl. Like she saw clumps of it and now literally within 24 hours, it just all

stopped to me.

Jessica: Is she someone that you would consider had a strong belief or a vague belief,

or enough of a belief to, do you know what I mean? Like where does belief fall for

someone like her?

Johanna: For sure she, she had the belief. She but that's, I think that's part of the

problem, I think many times is that we try to do things ourselves. Whether that's putting

the IKEA furniture together, whether that's trying to paint the house, whether that's trying

to fix the leaky roof or whatever it is, just leave it to the professional, thank it to the

person who's tackled it and who's accomplished it with brilliant results. I say this

because it is that hard. We have blind spots, we have mistakes, we have stumbling

blocks that we're not gonna get over because we're so entrenched.

Jessica: Yeah, in our thing.

Johanna: In our thing. And that's why when you go to war, you have the head general,

the head colonel or whoever looking at the strategy of everything overall. And then you

have the people in the front lines, and then you have people like right behind them,

should, this group of people go? Then the next people go? And so on and so forth. So

it's like an organized strategic movement of sorts. And so at the same time, because

we're so entrenched we're on the front lines, seeing the hair loss, feeling it or anything

else, whether it's gut health issues, migraines, fertility, or whatever. You're in the front

lines and you can't see the outside of it.

Jessica: Yeah, you're too in it. That's right. I do think it's you, we are our own worst

enemy in that regard. Yeah, we are too attached.

Johanna: Yeah, and the thing is, it could be something so simple or something a little

more, progressive that needs more time. But at the same time, it's just, it's all possible.

It's just working with the right person.

Jessica: Yeah, with the right person. And again, it comes back to believing, even if just

a whisper of you believes. That can change though, even from day to day. It's almost

like can, sometimes you believe this much, sometimes it's a little lower. Sometimesyou're not feeling so great. You believe a little more, but then you employ others. Belief

also means entrust Trusting in yourself, in someone else helping you in, something that

can go on with the trust piece comes in as well.

Johanna: You can even correlate it to dating. You could date a lot of people and not

everyone's gonna be for you, right? Not everyone's gonna be your one soulmate for the

rest of your life. And at the same time, you can find that one soulmate if you believe and

you keep at it. But if you give up, then guess what? Then you give up and you're single

and you've decided that, and the same hap happens with your healing. Once you give

up, it's game over. You're done, there's no more options.

And so, that's the unfortunate thing when people become disappointed. But many times

they're disappointed because of not getting the results. But maybe that person has led

them to the next thing and to the next thing, and it's like breadcrumbs, right? I don't

know too many people who meet their, let's say, true love, let's say in kindergarten. I

don't know anyone actually. Do you know somebody?

Jessica: Not kindergarten, but a little older. Yeah, but they're in enigma. You can't even,

they're like their own.

Johanna: Every relationship helps you grow and learn to the next one, and to the next

one. Even like jobs, you can even correlate it to jobs. You don't get promoted to a high

VP level right out of college. It's just like, it's little more responsibility with each job, with

each promotion, with each change of jobs or industries and right.

Jessica: So you're saying it all builds on itself. It's all building on itself. Yeah.

Johanna: 100%

Jessica: That's coming back to that comment I made when someone says what was

the one thing? And I'm like, you can't say there's one thing because it's all connected.

You wouldn't even have gotten to the thing you're at now if it maybe wasn't for the thing

from prior. Even if the thing from prior didn't feel good or didn't work. It still somehow

brought you to now.

Johanna: Exactly, I love that.

Jessica: The next one is acceptance., what I mean by that is. It doesn't mean settling. It

means that you fully accept whatever it is that's happening is happening. If you have

alopecia, you have to accept this is reality, this is what's happening. I see my hair in that

porcelain bowl, this is accepting, I'm accepting this is happening. I'm not pretending, not

denying that my hair is in that bowl there. And that anything that you're resisting as will

persist. So if you're pretending like: Oh no, I don't lose my hair, I don't lose, I'm cool, I'm

good, I'm just fine.The acceptance attitude I think is what activates healing. And that brings me down to

something below which around connected with surrender really. But anyway, so you

have to accept. That is part of healing. Part of healing is accepting exactly what is

happening and not being in denial and pretending like it's not there and avoiding. Have

you seen that happen? Your people deny and they like, you just close your eye and look

the other way.

Johanna: It's very rare. It's very rare. The person who denies their situation. I have

come across one person who doesn't wanna say it's alopecia. Even though she knows

it's hair loss, she doesn't wanna give it a name or a diagnosis. Because again, there's

more embedded fear behind that, and I respect that. But I will say, out of my own

healing journey, the denial and, yeah, just straight denial of things and situations

elongated. The healing process, it didn't shorten it. And that's what we want, we want

results and less time, we wanna shorten it. And so we have to get over the denial piece.

And I think that's where coaching comes along, because I can be your mirror and say:

Hey, we've got this is the way we're gonna handle it. These are your next steps, versus

you saying: This is the situation and what do I do? And then you're like, frozen. You're

frozen, you're in denial, you're like: No, that can't be it. No, I'm the only one. No, this, no

that. And it's really hard to move past the denial. It took me 4 years. There was a lot of

denial.

Jessica: Exactly. 'cause it's sometimes too much to bear. You can't get with no, this isn't

me. That couldn't be my story. So I'll just push through it. It'll be gone tomorrow, I'll wake

up and it'll be... cause there are things that we go through that are like that, like some

things heal on their own. You have something, like you've had a, I don't know, like

you're...

Johanna: Paper cut.

Jessica: Yeah, in a few days it's just gone. But it's hard to know with certain things. So

you wanna give it a little more time or let me give it a little more time. But at a certain

point you go, I have to accept that this is not, this is not gonna better on its own, just by

having my wheaties every day.

Johanna: No, it's not improving. And it's only getting worse because now, like I'm

feeling more depressed, anxious about it. People are noticing maybe they're looking at

my scalp, maybe they're looking at, so many other things. And then I also, in my own

situation, I felt myself, being more of a homebody, going out less, not really wanting to

see friends or family and wanting to, hang out or do things. And so I became less of a

social person and more of an introvert.

Jessica: Some things can be, I can relate to that too, by the way. Very much from the

things I've been through with my health, I've just but it was sneaky, like I didn't realize

that was happening. And then I'm like. I just was like: Oh my God, I'm not, I'm avoiding

all these things that I normally would be like so zestful with because I am whatever. Itcould be anything. My mood, my what I, my, judging myself. People are harsh on

whatever it is. I'm gonna be in too much pain, too much discomfort, too ashamed,

whatever the thing is, people, what you just said, but it's sneaky. You don't even know

it's happening after you though, you've been doing it on and on. Yeah, I don't think we

always know, but that's part of accepting.

Johanna: What would you say would be the next stage next?

Jessica: The next one's connected to something we've already been talking about,

which I call calling it in. So you're calling in the right aligned support. Now, again, there's

no way you can know completely all of who your team gets to be. You just have to take

a leap of faith and have a good, hopefully a good enough connection and trust just

enough to say: Okay. Calling in could also be if you're very spiritual and calling in means

your spirit guides, okay, that's fine. Go ahead and call those in. But you need to have

hopefully well aligned practitioners who you get with, who you feel comfortable with,

who you feel a connection with.

So you have to call in the right aligned support. You're not supposed to go at it alone,

even though we have to do a lot of our things in life alone. Because at the end of the

day, it's, you wake up to you and you go to sleep, to you. You still have to find the

people that are your right aligned support to call in. So I say calling in the right support.

So we've already mentioned that in some of the stuff you've been talking about, but

that's the next thing on my list is saying who's your team? Who's your team? And the

thing is about people who are high achieving or creative. I'm sorry, but we need each

other, we don't do this life alone. We don't, we do the things alone that I just mentioned.

You're with yourself a lot. We all have alone moments and experiences and again, we

born alone and die alone and all that. But the rest of the time in between we have, we

call it a team of support. I have my team for me that I've called in for all kinds of things.

I'm sure you do too. It would be weird if you didn't. I don't think you can even coach or

guide or heal others if you, unless you've had that for yourself.

Johanna: It's true. It's true. And the thing is, it's like I've created a team that's so wide

and vast that even though it's not a direct concern right now it's still friends that I've

cultivated. Yeah, me too. 'cause I wanna be more knowledgeable and aware and on top

of my health, of my family's health and really just be, again, more aware. You can be in

your car and you can hear that it's making a different noise than it had ever done before,

this could be a little sounding alarm without the engine light coming on. But when that

engine light right comes on, then you already know: Okay, now I need to take it in.

And so I wanna be really maybe intuitive and just listen for all the little things that are

not me too, that are not fully apparent or full blown, whether that's, my kid maybe not

sleeping well or whether that's his appetite has lowered, or anything else that may allow

me to move and pivot so that I can support him better, or support my husband or

support myself. I think that's what we need to do really when it comes to our health. We

need to really listen in. And normally when we have hair loss or a diagnosis of any sort,it's because we put off the warning signs. We haven't listened to our body and we've

just put off those warning signs. And even in my own case, it's just, it was just like, yeah,

I'll get to it. I'll get to it, I'll get to it.

Jessica: That's what I was saying earlier: Oh yeah, okay sure. I'll wake up and my ankle

won't be twisted anymore or whatever. Some things are like that and other things are

not. And there's reasons for that obviously. I'm too busy, I'm too this. But at a certain

point you can't deny what's going on. You can't, you just can't. So calling in the right

support is helpfully people who can see things from a vantage point that you cannot,

you just can't. Like we said earlier, you have your blind spots, your blocks, and so you

have people who can see from back here, over here, and you're, and you trust them to

see what you're not looking at.

That can be also preventative. Even if you're healed from the thing that we're talking

about, whatever it may be. Sometimes it's good to have preventative check-ins with

people just to have a little, like a tune up for that car you're mentioning. Just a little tune

up keep me on track, make sure I'm still doing things that are right for me right now at

this stage in life. 'cause I think through different stages of life, we sometimes need a

little upgrade for where we are in our next decades or our next years.

Johanna: 100% What would you say let's say someone's listening to this and they're

like, how do I go about cultivating my team? How do I go about finding the right person

for me?

Jessica: You have to use what's already right in front of your face, which is the

community that you already have. Now, some people, that's, again, everyone has a

different answer for that. Meaning some people go, I wouldn't ask my people about, you

know, that they have no idea. But the most important is that you start what's with what's

right already in front of your face. I think that you start there, and again, it depends on

what your life is like. If they're not right in front of your face, you have to really think back

well: Okay, who along the way have I met that I'm not considering, that I'm not thinking

of?

Is there someone in my community that I'm not remembering like. Oh yeah, it was at the

library and I talked with that librarian that one time, like a few years ago, and she was

showing me these really interesting books. Okay, she's not in my immediate community,

but like I did speak with her that day and that could be interesting. So you have to get a

little, maybe creative if it, the people that are right in front of your face aren't your best

resources. You have to think outside the box a little bit, and start there.

Johanna: Because depending on the situation, I think maybe some people wanna keep

their privacy to a minimum or not alert their friends or family or anything else.

Jessica: It depends on what their issue is. There's not like a hotline for every health

issue. Not necessarily, or everything that you have going on in your life, but, there's not,

you're right. Depends, everyone's different about privacy too, and who they speak with.So it really depends on the person. You have to really listen to your own inner compass.

And if you're not used to doing that, you better get used to listening to your inner

compass a little bit more if you're going through some health things.

Because if you're going through some health things, you're gonna have to, you're gonna

have to listen and learn to trust like you talked about a few times already. Your own

intuition, your own voice, your own inner knowing, getting still enough and quiet enough

to hear some of the whispers that come through, which is what I work with my clients on

a lot. And listening, because you'll get answers. You can keep things private to a point,

but at a certain point, you're gonna have to let the people that you know and love

around know they're gonna, you're gonna have to let some them know, because they're

gonna need to be of support. So you can't hide it for too much, for too long. It depends

on what your health thing is going on. It really does.

If we're talking about alopecia you're, how much can you know? You're gonna have to,

people will know.

Johanna: It depends, I hid it as much as possible. I think the beauty of my situation was

that I actually ended up moving to another country, to another country. So I was just

already automatically away from all friends and family. So I was actually quite lucky in

many ways. But I think also the other side to that in being reserved with your diagnosis

is that, time is ticking. And depending on the situation, you can go bald and so then you

would need a wig and then people will notice that. If you don't have the situation that I

did where you actually moved to another country or another city.

At the same time, I would say going back to how to maneuver and find your tribe, I think

case in point is to do your research. Case in point is to find somebody who's been there,

done that, right? Case in point is to find somebody who's got the results. Because the

thing is, for example, my acupuncturist say, actually it's not just the acupuncturist. Many

types of, many acupuncture friends that I have say: Oh, we can heal alopecia, but they

don't even have one client that they've actually healed. You know what I mean? So

what's the point of saying you can't do it when you haven't done it?

Jessica: True.

Johanna: That's saying I've I've been able to run a mile in less than four minutes and I

haven't done it, nor do I have the proof. You know what I mean?

Jessica: I do know exactly. That's all true. And by the way, that's also where, once

again, you have to start listening deeper and also discovering who in your, but on a

practical level, you can, there are, thankfully now we live in a day and age where there

are online forums and communities for almost anything. I had a client who was gonna

do this sleep apnea surgery procedure that we were trying to decide if it was really right

for him. So I researched and found a bunch of some online communities so that he

could like just pop in and start chatting with people who had done it, who hadn't done it,

who they were seeing for it, who they, we found some communities that he could justjump into and he didn't know these people, but at least it was people that had

experience with this stuff that was going on for him.

And still he had to make his own decisions anyway. We had to just figure out what that

was. And that's where listening again, comes in listening to your own inner compass,

your own inner guidance, that gives you some clues too. So it's a mixture of all those

things. But there are online communities now. When I was struggling with some things,

years ago there wasn't, there's online we have just, we have access to so much more

now in that regard

Johanna: I have issues with online communities. 'cause at least for alopecia, they tend

to be negative. They tend to be very negative. There's no cure, or, they're very bitter. I

guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm very results oriented. So when I see these

communities and people talking in there, they're not maximizing their time, they're not

maximizing their efforts in lieu of trying to do it themselves. Like it's a badge of honor

potentially. Or maybe it's a timing issue or anything else, but to me it's just like you can't

let things faster. You just really need to get to it.

I don't know, in many ways, the online community can be a good source or a bad

source. Maybe in this case with your client, with the sleep apnea, it was a good source

because he was already looking into surgery. He was already looking into a procedure

and looking at outcomes, which is very different.

Jessica: I was just giving one example. It depends on the health condition and what's

going on. So you're right it's a really case by case. And when you say where's the first

place to look, an online community might not be right for everything we're talking about.

I'm just giving one idea of the many. I still think that you have to look with what's right in

front of your face in the community that you already are in, and then go from there, one

step forward, one step to the side, one step, and continue to follow some breadcrumbs.

Johanna: I think some communities can be very helpful. I actually get a lot of referrals

from like mom communities and even from national communities that have like national

organizations for hair loss. At the same time, I think in general, they're not helpful

because it's just other people trying to give you advice, on your situation when even if

we all had the same type of hair loss, it would still look different, the trajectory, the next

steps, the healing process.

It's not a one size fits all, and I think that's the biggest misnomer is that we're really

stuck, let's say, since we're talking about hair loss with the one size fits all. This is why

people gravitate towards the minoxidil, the viviscal, the serums, the specialty shampoos

because they think: Oh, it's one thing and someone's hiding it from me, and it's not one

thing like we said, it's never one thing.

Jessica: I agree that it's never one thing people, that's a, that's such a, that's a certain

type of industry's mentality. Like a one pill, the magic elixir, the one pill. We're fooled in a

way in that regard.Johanna: So I tend to be cautious when I go into these forms because again, as I

experienced them, they were very negative and there was no hope and no, no nothing,

no inkling of anyone wanting to do anything, and it was just really, a fest of woe is me

and playing a victim.

Jessica: That I understand. There's different kinds of ways of going about research and

going about finding your way and having enough of those conversations so that it

doesn't overwhelm you too. It can get really overwhelming too, with communities and

with conversations. For some people who I work with they tend towards being a bit

hypervigilant and anxious. Sometimes too much information actually clouds everything

and can actually cause a lot more anxiety and it doesn't help anything. I can be like that.

Sometimes more is not better. It's just more, and you're then, you're like lost in a sea of

everybody's different opinions and it doesn't help at all.

Johanna: Or even the misinformation, there's a lot of misinformation out there too.

Anything from trying to lose weight, to get your hair back to anything else, there's so

much misinformation about anything, we're not looking at the person.

Jessica: So that's where it gets to my, the next step that I was thinking about as you're

describing that, which is, not only listening, I mean listening is a core piece around, your

intuition, your body, which I was already talking about. But again, 'cause at the end of

the day, you still have to listen to your own inner guidance. But 'cause when I haven't for

myself, when I haven't, it's not been good. Whenever I go against what my initial

reading goes, something, it doesn't go well. So it's such a tricky one. Sometimes we

don't wanna listen to the voice that's coming through. But then the other one is around

discovery.

So discovering root causes of whatever your disease or wellness challenges. That

discovery is part of the stages of healing in terms of being willing to find out that there's

maybe there's more than one, maybe there's more than one root cause. I don't know, as

much obviously about what you do, but I'm sure there's, and I don't know how much into

root cause you get into with people, but you may discover there's a few things that are

going against what's con against your wellness so that you're staying in this state of

where your hair keeps falling out. There's root causes that are more than one thing.

That's what I'm saying. So you have to just get to what those things are.

Johanna: 100% We do offer worldwide testing. We do worldwide testing and so this is

available for anyone, which I think is really, helpful and key, especially after a certain

age. Because without the correct testing, then you're just going to be throwing darts in

the dark, but then also in this vicious cycle. And it gets to the point where, just like

anything else, if you wanna get into, college, you need to take a test if you want to, get

to the Olympics, there's also a task. It's either you qualify or you don't. I think for our

health, we also need to be taking certain tasks at certain times of our life. And

personally, by living abroad, and by only feeling this the hard way, do I really understand

my international clients.Because, here in the US, the healthcare system is different. You can have literally any

test you want if you pay for it. Abroad, you can't, even if you ask for it. I say this, having

had a pregnancy abroad in the Netherlands, and I only had 2 ultrasounds and one urine

test, and I asked for more, and they're like, no, we don't do anymore. This was in the

Netherlands. See, I make it sound like I was in some far away island, off the coast of, I

don't know, Fiji or something. And that's not it, I was in the Netherlands, which is right

next to Belgium, right next to France, right next to Germany. This is a first world

developed country. And yet my pregnancy felt like I was in the 1500s. You laugh, but it

was scary, it was really scary.

Jessica: Somehow everything was okay, though. Everything somehow turned out okay

though, right?

Johanna: Yes and no. And I don't think I've ever talked about my own pregnancy

situation abroad, but I will say that. I was only given midwives as an options, never saw

a doctor once, even though I was 40 at the time, with my first baby. And midwives, for all

intents purposes, some were younger than me, a lot younger, like fresh out of college,

young. And some were older than me and more experienced.

And at the same time, it's just like having a doctor, having a midwife or anything else,

you wanna feel like you can trust 'em. You wanna feel like they're competent. And I

stress the word competent because not everyone is. And that goes for mechanics,

plumbers, roofers, that goes for florists, babysitters, like anything., not everyone is

competent in their field. And even with the midwives situation, I actually had a change,

like from I think 3 or 4 agencies throughout my whole pregnancy. So I changed different

midwives and agencies because I didn't feel that they could truly be there for me and

truly be competent.

It was like week 38 and I'm changing my midwife again. And the thing is, it's just at the

end of the day, it's like we have to advocate for ourselves. And being an expat in the

Netherlands and then having all these different boundaries and rules that I could and

could not do, made me appreciate the US so much more. It's not perfect, the US is not

perfect by any stretch. However, when it comes to testing, I can have it when I want it,

how I want it. Abroad, you can't. In the Netherlands, in, many other places like Canada,

UK, Australia, there's no options. You are given the option of one type of healthcare and

that's it.

Jessica: Yep, there you go.

Johanna: It’s so frustrating and maddening because I know there's something better.

It's like going to the ice cream store and only having vanilla when you know there's 300

other flavors. You know what I mean? And you're only subjected to one because that's

all that your government is giving you. That's a disservice. And so that's why I've been

so keen on bringing worldwide testing to everybody because I want people to have

knowledge, options, delivered to their doorsteps, so that they can see and have this.Because. It's so crucial. If you don't have the right task, it's like never having the shoe

fit. It's never gonna fit. It's never gonna work.

Jessica: Yep. I love hearing how passionate you are about how imperative it is that

people get to have their hands on options like this, that they have there, there are

choices. It's not just a one hit wonder, yeah.

Johanna: Yeah. Okay, next stage of healing.

Jessica: This is connected with the next one means writing some kind of prescription.

And I say that in quotes just because it's not literally like a prescription on a doctor's

pad, but a prescription for yourself and for the, and with the people who truly get it.

Around what your process is, even if it's for just right now. And then you change your

process in 6 months, and then it changes again in 6 months. Like it might change over

time, but you have a grasp on what your prescription is. And on your prescription pad, it

might be that I sing every day and I journal and I make art, and then I do whatever, X, Y,

Z health things. I'm just saying, you create your own prescription. With the people that

you have employed to help you.

So I think that can be really empowering because you feel like then you have, there are

action steps involved with what's possible for you. You can actually do things about

where you are and do them over time. And look, everyone's different. Like you had the

woman who already noticed things in 24 hours, and then there's the other people where

it might take longer and they need to, tweak their prescription. Like what they're doing

isn't working for some reason. So you go back to the drawing board, you look at the

prescription pad and you go, okay, why don't we tweak this, and this?

And so, that's another stage is that you need to have a working prescription that's like a

working in progress that you're working with.

Johanna: I think just to add in into that, the thing is like we all have more goals in life.

So for example, I have many ladies who wanna heal their alopecia and get pregnant. I

have others who wanna heal their alopecia and their second or third autoimmune

disease, or maybe, they wanna heal their their joint pain or maybe their migraines or

maybe, something, reverse their high cholesterol or whatever it is. We all have extra

goals outside of this, outside of the one thing that's bothering us the most. And so it's

also working to tailor a situation and life so that they can achieve these other goals.

Jessica: There's more to it. There's always more to it, and people have a hard time

realizing that sometimes there are certain things you have to do in order. For example, I

have a client who I was doing some thyroid healing with and she wanted to lose some

weight. And I was like: That's great, but that is, you cannot at this stage with where you

are, your prescription pad is that the thyroid healing is number one. You can't be

focusing on quote unquote losing weight while you're healing an organ in your body. You

just have to be really clear that what you're focusing on later on, the other things will

come and there'll be happy side effects to, focusing on the thing that really is standingout and by the way, blocking you from the, all the wellness and the rest of your body

anyway.

So usually there's an umbrella thing hanging on above that is the main thing going on,

that you need to focus there. And from there, the rest of the things will follow. Then the

next thing is around surrendering our attachment to the outcomes. We have to

surrender and get out of the, our own way and releasing our grip on things and being

willing to receive the healing that's coming and the help from other people. That's part of

it too. Even though this client I'm mentioning, she goes: I wanna lose some weight. I'm

like: That's great. You're gonna have to surrender to your attachment to the outcome of

that for now. Because right now, if we don't do the healing, the underlying issues, you're

not gonna get there. There's just interesting, pieces that have to happen before the

other.

I have another client who was going through a lot of emotional, psychospiritual

emotional kinds of things, and she while some of my clients, I might have given some

things to in the beginning I have this gut healing protocol stuff that I have and I have all

these things. She had a lot of deeper inner work to do. And so later on I gave her this

gut health book that I had worked on and she said why didn't you give this to me in the

beginning? I said, because you couldn't have received it. And she was like: Oh, you're

right. That's right. In my logical mind, I like to think that I could do that, but in reality, I

had a lot of other stuff I needed to dig through first. That was in the way of me receiving

the other thing that you might have given me.

Johanna: I wonder how many people realize that about themselves.

Jessica: It's a big one. It's a big one.

Johanna: Because a lot of times I realize people are just like: Just tell me what to do.

Give me the 1, 2, 3, 4 steps, but sometimes there's more than just 4 steps.

Jessica: That's what I'm saying, because we get obsessive in our minds. I want that

goal, I want that, you want that. I want that house, I want it now, I wanna feel better now.

So just tell me what to do and I'm gonna do it and I'm really overachieving and I'm a

type A and I'm just gonna do it. That's great, but there's a lot of things that got you to

where you are now. And if you don't look at some of those habits and patterns that have

got you there, you're gonna go right back to those things anyway. And you're not gonna

progress in the way that you might like to. Because you're in your own freaking way. So

we get really attached to things that we think we want, when really we've gotta slow it

down and actually surrender to the attachment to those other outcomes and look at

really what the bigger thing is that's going on that's causing the most challenge.

Johanna: What other patterns have you seen within your clients in terms of like them

getting blocks from healing?Jessica: There could be really loud ones that are very obvious any addiction If you're

someone's yeah, I wanna, could be anything, but then they're secretly. They're a closet

alcoholic and then they're gonna be blocking their own wellness. But thinking they're

fine.

There's lots of things that we get habituated to that I think can get in the way that are

actually blocks to what we really want. There are little security blankets or they're low

full blown addictions, or they're just compulsions or something. I think those are some of

the biggest, and there are people that are very high functioning that have those things.

Anyway, so the blocks really are about I think things that people aren't willing to look at

in themselves. That they're actually the things that are in the way of them getting and

achieving what they want for themselves. We all have them, but some people really

have bigger ones than others.

Johanna: Interesting. Any final thoughts or words of wisdom that you would like to

share with, our audience?

Jessica: The last bits of my steps really are about rewire or neutralizing negative

messaging from healthcare providers, because I think that's another big one that comes

on and you wanna form solid relationships with the people in your life who really do get

what you're going through.

I think relationships are at the core and community is at the core of all of this, and that I

do believe that you will encounter, and I certainly encountered a lot of health

professionals who really actually messed me up. They said really negative and really

disempowering things, and it really was painful to hear those messages. And so I had to

really seek out the people who I really trusted had my back. And then another thing I'll

say is at times we have to make radical changes in our lives, in order to get some of the

things that we want around our health. Like it could be anything. Maybe you need to

move to somewhere else so that has better air or whatever. It could be anything.

I also think the last part that I like to talk about with people is that, is the willingness to

see that whatever your challenge actually is where your biggest growth and your

biggest gifts are gonna come from. I'm not saying it's an easy thing, but if you are willing

just enough to see that there's some gold there, then later on, you will receive some of

the biggest gifts from one's life, I think can come from some of the biggest health and

life challenges. Not right away necessarily, but a lot of gold can come from there.

Usually, there's no black and white to this, but I think that you're at an extreme

advantage if you start realizing and you're willing to see that these things and these

challenges can be gifts. And perhaps some of the greatest gifts of your life.

Johanna: We're so aligned because I always say that alopecia is a blessing in disguise.

It was for me. And I do see that I. At the end of the rainbow. When you start working with

somebody too, right? They have a problem and there's an immediate need, there's an

urgency to get the healing and the hair growth in my case. And then by the time we'reon our final coaching call, things are just so much better, their life has changed in such

an amazing way, and they continue to see so much progress where they have nothing

but gratitude for all the learnings and for really having like that fast track towards the

hair growth.

Because literally, just like the lady with the gut health, it's one thing to know and be an

expert in your field, but there's another thing that, again, understanding our own blocks

and what we need to do.

Jessica: True I also think whatever your health thing is whatever you end up if they end

up, growing their hair back, that's great. But it's actually a happy side effect to doing a

lot of other great things for yourself that you're gonna end up being better off having had

that thing that caused you to create wellness in other aspects of your life along the way.

So it's a much bigger picture than we think it is. That's what I would end with, those are

super important to me and like you said, they are to you too. Super cool.

Johanna: Thank you.

Jessica: Yeah, way to go.

Johanna: Take care. Bye.